Illustration of woman wearing headphones and speaking into a microphone
E35
January 24, 2025
DEI Season Finale: Part One
Hosted by
Alix Dunn

DEI is a nebulous field — if you’re not in it, it can be hard to know which tactics and methods are reasonable and effective… and which are a total waste of time. Or worse: which are actively harmful.In this two-parter Alix is joined by Hanna McCloskey and Rubie Clarke from Fearless Futures. In this episode they share what DEI is and crucially, what it isn’t.Listen to understand why unconscious bias training is a waste of time, and what meanin...

On Computer Says Maybe, host Alix Dunn interviews visionaries and cutting edge researchers to help you wade through the wacky and worrying world of new technology.
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Show Notes
DEI is a nebulous field — if you’re not in it, it can be hard to know which tactics and methods are reasonable and effective… and which are a total waste of time. Or worse: which are actively harmful.

In this two-parter Alix is joined by Hanna McCloskey and Rubie Clarke from Fearless Futures. In this episode they share what DEI is and crucially, what it isn’t.

Listen to understand why unconscious bias training is a waste of time, and what meaningful anti-oppression work actually looks like — especially when attempting to embed these principles into digital products that are deployed globally.

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Further reading & resources:
Rubie Eílis Clarke (she/her) is Senior Director of Consultancy, Fearless Futures. Rubie is of Jewish and Irish heritage and is based in her home town of London. As Senior Director of Consultancy at Fearless Futures, Rubie supports ambitious organisations to diagnose inequity in their ecosystems and design, implement and evaluate innovative anti-oppression solutions. Her expertise lies in critical social theory and research, policy analysis and organisational change strategy. She holds a B.A. in Sociology and Anthropology from Goldsmiths University, London and a M.A. in Global Political Economy from the University of Sussex, with a focus on social and economic policy, Race critical theory, decoloniality and intersectional feminism. Rubie is also an expert facilitator who is skilled at leaning into nuance, complexity and discomfort with curiosity and compassion. She is passionate about facilitating collaborative learning journeys that build deep understanding of the root causes of oppression and unlock innovative and meaningful ways to disrupt and divest in service, ultimately, of collective liberation.

Hanna Naima Mccloskey (she/her) is Founder and CEO, Fearless Futures. Hanna is Algerian British and the Founder & CEO of Fearless Futures. Before founding Fearless Futures she worked for the UN, NGOs and the Royal Bank of Scotland, across communications, research and finance roles; and has lived, studied and worked in Israel-Palestine, Italy, USA, Sudan, Syria and the UK. She has a BA in English from the University of Cambridge and an MA in International Relations from the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, with a specialism in Conflict Management. Hanna is passionate, compassionate and challenging as an educator and combines this with rigour and creativity in consultancy. She brings nuanced and complex ideas in incisive and engaging ways to all she supports, always with a commitment for equitable transformation. Hanna is also a qualified ABM bodyfeeding peer supporter, committed to enabling all parents to meet their body feeding goals.
Transcript